Humane Rights w/ Dr. Akilah Cadet
Season 1
Episode 1: W. Kamau Bell
Transcript
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I’m Dr. Akilah Cadet, and this is Humane Rights.
A show that flips the traditional talk show on its head. This isn’t about debate — it’s about dialogue. Each episode, I invite guests from different walks of life to unpack the messy, beautiful realities of being human. Welcome to Humane Rights, where being human is the ultimate act of resistance.
Welcome to Humane Rights. Thanks for being here. I’m so happy to have you here because you are the inaugural guest.
W. Kamau Bell:
Oh, am I? Did you not know that? I mean… maybe surprise. But yeah — my dream “first guest” is what could make it, could make it… you know? This man to come out. And then it worked so easily. I mean, we’re in the East Bay. You’re amazing. It wasn’t like we were in Paris.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
That’s true.
W. Kamau Bell:
I would’ve tried to come, but that would’ve been difficult. We did spend like 12 hours together at the Roots season opener — our home game — and—
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Yes.
W. Kamau Bell:
—thousands and thousands of people, so we did. And we spent time recently — a few hours together.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Yeah. Our few quality minutes together.
W. Kamau Bell:
We were literally just in L.A. for a Day of Unreasonable Conversation — probably known more to the world as the day Kamala Harris said, “These motherfuckers are crazy.”
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Did she?
W. Kamau Bell:
Yeah. It made Complex. I mean, “Black news.” She didn’t say “motherfucker,” she said “motherfuckers.” People were writing it wrong — I said no, it was a “yo.” It was definitely a “yo.” She said it was her “freedom tour.”
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
And what is freedom? So, I would love for you to tell everyone just how wonderful and amazing you are.
W. Kamau Bell:
Okay. Let’s go from the inside out. I’m a dad, I’m a husband, I’m a son. I’m an Oakland resident — proudly an Oakland resident. Not born in Oakland though; Oakland people get sensitive.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Same. Full disclosure: born in Sacramento.
W. Kamau Bell:
I want to be clear: living in Oakland. I didn’t come from the soil. But I’ve been here on and off since ’97. I’m a standup comedian, writer, documentary director, producer, TV producer, documentary producer, Substacker, and Celebrity Jeopardy! champion.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Which is so cool that you get to say.
W. Kamau Bell:
It absolutely is. It just happened this year and I’m milking it like a Miss America title.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Do you have a wave?
W. Kamau Bell:
I don’t — I think I should. I should’ve started earlier. Oh — and you want to leave the Peabody part out? Four-time Emmy winner and a Peabody Award winner. Those are cool. Those are better than great. The Peabody was such a big… you can’t really “aim” for it the same way.
I wish it added up to me being able to retire, but it does not. I still have three young children who like to eat every day. Multiple times a day.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I look at my resume like, that’s impressive — and then look at my bank account and go, “But not as impressive.” I still need to work. I have the pleasure of being a Black disabled woman in a white world. And the amount of money I used to make when everyone didn’t want to be racist…
W. Kamau Bell:
Do you remember those days?
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I’ll tell you about a check I got. I don’t really talk about this, but in the post–George Floyd era — when he was murdered by Minneapolis police — many of us who were already Black and speaking politically and publicly suddenly were very employable for a short time. It was during COVID.
I remember getting an offer — and I did the gig — for a company in the United Kingdom. They wanted to have “the diversity conversation” and also get somebody from America because of the George Floyd thing. I got paid 50 grand to talk in a Zoom meeting for about an hour.
W. Kamau Bell:
And the only thing that made it suck was you had to get up early because it was the UK.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Exactly. I had to be on Zoom at 6. And I was like, no wonder they’re paying me the big bucks. I was booked all day. That was very helpful.
What people don’t realize is: George Floyd was murdered in May — May 25th.
W. Kamau Bell:
That’s my mom’s birthday.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Yeah. And my brother’s birthday is January 6th — the day of the insurrection. My birthday for most of my life was just my birthday… and now it’s known as the day Kobe Bryant died.
W. Kamau Bell:
Yeah. When your birthday comes up, it’s a thing. Social media is like, “Oh, it’s my birthday.” “We’re celebrating… calendar today.”
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Then it was like, “Oh shit, Juneteenth. We didn’t know about Juneteenth. We don’t have enough time to give everyone that day off this year, but next year.” Then: “We should do something for MLK.” “We should do something for Black History Month.” “We should do something for Women’s History Month… but with Black women.”
That first quarter of 2021, just talking? I made a quarter of a million dollars — on Zoom. Bottom half probably pajamas.
W. Kamau Bell:
And you got booked on more talk shows — white talk shows. Like late night. The sense of urgency — which we know is a pillar of white supremacy — was very real.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I told myself: these are my reparations. I’m going to collect the checks so I can buy a home. I said that to my three daughters. If you have the money to pay me, and I’m going to do what I do anyway, I’m not going to sign a thing that says I won’t talk about this.
And I remember when Juneteenth was made a holiday, I asked my mom, “How come we didn’t celebrate Juneteenth?” And she said, “Because I’m from Indiana. That was a Texas holiday.”
W. Kamau Bell:
People don’t understand that. A lot of it is where you come from.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I grew up celebrating Juneteenth because my family is from the South. My grandfather started the first African-American history museum in Sacramento. My mom is… on the COINTELPRO— (I’m saying it wrong, but you know what I mean). And my dad is Haitian, so I was born a revolutionary. And my mom is like the Black history hookup, so I was mad like, “How could we not celebrate it?”
W. Kamau Bell:
She was like: “It wasn’t a thing we did in Indianapolis.” Too busy running from the Klan.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
She wasn’t running — she was confronting them. I don’t mean to put my mom…
W. Kamau Bell:
I get it.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Before we move on, I want to get into intersectionality and what we carry. I’m a proud Black disabled woman, and people may listen differently. So I’d like to describe myself.
I am a baddie. My pronouns are “bad bitch” or “she/her.” I have long golden blonde braids and a very colorful Christopher John Rogers dress on — bright colors, stripes and polka dots — black and white shoes. We’re in a studio with Taylor Smalls artwork behind us and a yellow book that says “White Supremacy Is All Around…”
So I would love for you to describe what you look like.
W. Kamau Bell:
Great. I’m a 6-foot-4 Black man who is often described as a gentle giant. I have what I like to call a salt-and-pepper afro, but it’s really just salt at this point. I often get mistaken for Questlove.
I’m wearing a Mr. Rogers–style navy cardigan I’ve owned a long time, blue jeans I wear too often, comfortable Skechers, and a black T-shirt that has a drawing my daughter Juno did — a family portrait of my wife, my three daughters, and me, from when she was like three. It’s very childlike and perfect. I wear glasses. My pronouns are he/him.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Thank you for doing that. If I ask you: what does Humane Rights mean to you?
W. Kamau Bell:
Putting those words together — “humane” versus “human.” We’ve heard “human rights” so often it can become meaningless, so how do we twist that phrase into something that makes you go, “Oh.”
Black people are good for this: once something gets played out, we still want to make the point, but in a new way. The English language is constantly evolving and Black people are on the front lines of that. Ain’t is a word.
“Humane rights” sounds like kindness and empathy — community-centered. You thinking about me being okay, me thinking about you being okay.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
We should wrap it up here.
W. Kamau Bell:
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Not gonna speedrun the podcast. It’s funny — people hear “humane” and go to pets: humane society. Great marketing.
But today, with everything happening — Donald and co… I call them “Donald & Co,” like a morning radio show—
W. Kamau Bell:
Up next: pointless shit that will be shared.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
There was a study — I think in 2018 — that said if anyone’s called by their first name, they don’t know what they’re doing. That’s why Kamala was “Kamala” and Trump was “Trump.” It happens a lot with women leaders.
Even now with all the stuff happening to humanity — especially here in the U.S. — people will show up for the disabled dog who needs a home, but don’t have the same humanity for people.
And I’ll have people approach me like: “I’m such a fan.” Then they list a job they need me to do that’s definitely not going to pay me anything.
I’m going to give you a homework assignment: the first chapter of my book is “White Women Are Exhausting.”
W. Kamau Bell:
Oh yeah. Well, I’m married to a white woman. Maybe I should just— No, I’m not “not all”— I signed up for this exhaustion with this particular person that I love.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
White women slide into my DMs like, “How do I solve this really complex problem?” That leads me to: what do you think about the current state of humanity?
You said a gem two days ago: people need to pick a side. What are the two sides?
W. Kamau Bell:
Too often we hear “left versus right.” That’s a construct — two corporate parties dominate the conversation. People feel pressure to pick one, and then we act like those are the two sides of every argument.
But I live in Oakland near Berkeley — in Berkeley there are 40 sides. People can be “on the left” and have loud, angry disagreements.
At this point in American history, the sides are: fascist or anti-fascist. That’s it. If you’re anti-fascist, we can talk about other things we don’t agree on. But you need to let me know you’re anti-fascist first. If you’re fascist, I don’t care if you have the best sweet potato pie recipe ever invented. I don’t need that pie.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I’ll download one from McCormick.
W. Kamau Bell:
My pie that people will hate or love: it’s a frozen Sara Lee apple pie.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Frozen Totino’s pizza still hits.
W. Kamau Bell:
Nostalgia baked in.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I’m going to publicly say: I don’t like sweet potato or pumpkin pie.
W. Kamau Bell:
That’s like not picking a side between fascism and anti-fascism.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Pumpkin is fascism.
W. Kamau Bell:
Pumpkin latte season — no love.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
It feels like gentrification of my palate.
W. Kamau Bell:
So yes — fascist vs anti-fascist. How do we get back to humanity?
First, I think we have to hold space for the fact that the United States as a popular, ongoing concern may be over — not that it is, but it might be. Empires don’t last forever. The British Empire isn’t a thing anymore — England still exists, but not that empire.
One thing that made the U.S. “great” was immigrants came here and the U.S. got credit for what people from other countries did. People who might have come here are not coming here now. If there’s another country that becomes the place, that becomes the next place.
People with privilege may bounce. Beyoncé and Jay-Z bought land in the UK.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Did they?
W. Kamau Bell:
Yeah. Americans don’t want to learn a language — they want to go where people speak English. Portugal has a big Black community now. These things are happening, and they’re rooted in privilege.
This is the best advertisement for the world to go: not here.
Personally, I’m hoping for Puerto Rican and Hawaiian sovereignty.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I upset millions of people when I inform them Puerto Rico isn’t a state.
W. Kamau Bell:
Bad Bunny really broke some people’s hearts.
And it’s funny that headlining the Super Bowl halftime show gets treated like a Presidential Medal of Honor. Like: Donald should stop it from happening. It’s just a thing, and when it’s over it’s over.
Kendrick last year was like “This is a statement show.” Great. Bruno Mars was just trying to make your body move. Coldplay was like, “White guy,” so everyone’s included.
Bad Bunny deserves it by the metrics — people are just concerned because he’s brown and speaks Spanish. But the NFL is incredibly problematic. Charlie Kirk is being honored at games. Colin Kaepernick never got to play. NFL players don’t have guaranteed contracts. After a certain number of years, you get limited healthcare — and CTE gets diagnosed after you’re dead.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Not a problem with our Valkyries.
W. Kamau Bell:
They’re perfect.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
We were at a Day of Unreasonable Conversation — I met Napheesa Collier. She had no idea who I was.
W. Kamau Bell:
She was nice, took a picture with a fan. She was in line to meet Kamala Harris — she could have said “not right now.”
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I showed my kids the photo. They’re becoming WNBA fans. They didn’t know who she was, so I played the clip of her… and we watched the whole thing.
And apparently, refs in the WNBA aren’t as good because the really good ones get promoted to the NBA.
W. Kamau Bell:
Yep.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
The “mNBA.”
W. Kamau Bell:
We should start saying that.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
New York Times did a wonderful article on pay equity for the WNBA.
Women’s sports are fundamental. Data shows 12-year-old girls and nonbinary folks drop out of sports because of periods, lack of support, pressure — but if we keep girls and nonbinary kids in sports, they become leaders. We need them for humanity.
I’ve had some pep at my kid’s school about how my kid is treated. PE teachers saying “growth mindset” feels like Joe Rogan adults saying “growth mindset.” I just want my kid outside getting fresh air, having fun, learning coordination and how to get along with other people. It’s important that it’s fun so you keep doing physical activity in life — and become a leader.
W. Kamau Bell:
One reason I’m one of the owners of Oakland Roots and Soul is because there aren’t women in these positions, there aren’t Black people in these positions, and there aren’t disabled people in these positions.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Thumbs up. I approve of the message.
W. Kamau Bell:
Have I mansplained that effectively?
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
You are not a mansplainer at all.
So can you tell us what you’re doing to find pockets of joy?
W. Kamau Bell:
“Pockets of Joy” would be a good podcast name. Rebrand now.
For me it’s engaging with my kids. Like last night, I played the Cathy Engelbert speech (WNBA commissioner) and we had a whole discussion late at night about the WNBA. My older daughter understood proportional pay. It was fun — this is why you have kids.
In my standup act, my oldest daughter sometimes opens the show — she sings and plays guitar. My ten-year-old sits slightly offstage with a microphone, counts up every time I swear, and commentates. So standup — which is usually a solo activity — becomes a family affair. It makes touring more fun because it doesn’t isolate me from my family.
At Largo in LA, I did a joke slightly differently and my ten-year-old started laughing offstage. I heard her giggle, looked at her, and it made her laugh more. The audience loved that my ten-year-old actually thinks I’m funny. Now it’s an inside joke.
Whenever I start to go, “This is so hard,” the ghost of Harriet Tubman shows up like, “What is hard?” I talk for a living. I direct documentaries. So having my family connected to it and having fun with it brings me a lot of joy.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Let folks know how they can find you.
W. Kamau Bell:
You can find me at @wkamaubell on various platforms. Instagram is my main one. Substack is my main platform of choice now — my Substack newsletter is called Who’s With Me? I write weekly about what’s going on in the world. I just wrote about comedians performing in Saudi Arabia, I wrote about Charlie Kirk, and I wrote a piece I called my diss track for Ezra Klein.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
You have to come back.
W. Kamau Bell:
For sure.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
Thank you for being on Humane Rights. We did it.
W. Kamau Bell:
You got me in my new size — I used to be a 2, but I’ve become a 3.
Dr. Akilah Cadet:
I got you. Two sizes in my old age.