Humane Rights with Dr. Akilah Cadet
Season 1
Episode 7 - Niema Jordan
— INTRO —
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm Dr. Akilah Cadet and this is Humane Rights, a show that flips the traditional talk show on its head. This isn't about debate. It's about dialogue. Each episode, I invite guests from different walks of life to unpack the messy, beautiful realities of being human. Welcome to Humane Rights, where being human is the ultimate act of resistance.
— CONVERSATION BEGINS —
DR. AKILAH CADET: Hey.
NIEMA JORDAN: Hello. Welcome to Humane Rights.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm so excited to have you here today. You are going to introduce yourself, Niema. All right. But one thing that you get to do that you may not get to do all the time is an image description. So, I'll role model. Everyone knows that. Doctor Akilah Cadet, the host of this podcast. But today I am wearing a black crewneck sweater that says Keep Being Amazing on it. My trademark phrase. Some black and white pants with wonderful print by Christopher John Rogers, some silver shoes, and my long golden braids. We're sitting here in the studio with the golden background, Taylor Smalls' painting behind me. And a beautiful, stunning woman on your tan couch. And that is you, Niema Jordan! So give us an image description and tell us about your wonderful self.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh my goodness. Well, thank you for having me. My name is Niema Jordan. I am a filmmaker, storyteller, producer from East Oakland.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yes!
NIEMA JORDAN: And I am here today wearing green and gold framed glasses with gold statement stud earrings. And I have on a black sort of sheer shirt. And black pants with black pointed toe shoes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I love it. And you left out the fresh cut.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, and I have a fresh bald fade because I knew I was going to be on camera, and I have to have a fresh haircut every time I'm on camera. Every time.
DR. AKILAH CADET: You have one of the best head shapes around.
NIEMA JORDAN: Thank you.
DR. AKILAH CADET: You and I were both painted by Taylor Smalls in THROUGHLINE.
NIEMA JORDAN: We were. Yes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: And we were both honored for being pillars of Oakland. You have two pillars — or bad bitches. You know, however you want to frame it.
NIEMA JORDAN: Frame it.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Very good to see what you did there. I think it's also important to note that my first film project that I ever did was directed by you.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: And you were like, fine, you can be my assistant director. You've never done anything, ever. And you were so wonderful with me.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh my gosh. And now I get to say I'm working on my fifth documentary, which is amazing.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Thank you very much.
NIEMA JORDAN: Like a shirt? Yeah. Oh wow!
DR. AKILAH CADET: That was a little too quick for me, and I love that. I just want to add in to how wonderful and amazing you are. You work with some scrappy individuals on projects. I think one is "Opara?" Is that how you say it, or is it — or is it Oprah? I don't know.
NIEMA JORDAN: I was like, are you talking about Oprah?
DR. AKILAH CADET: This is funny. Yes.
NIEMA JORDAN: Miss Winfrey, as she is referred to.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yes. Miss Winfrey. A prince?
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, my gosh, you're doing this?
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. It's happening. Uh, yeah. Harry.
NIEMA JORDAN: Prince Harry. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I hope they both have thriving careers. I'm so glad you helped them get on the map.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, is that what happened? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I always love to bring that up because not everyone can say that. I think that's really important that you were able to be part of this film project with them. HBO?
NIEMA JORDAN: That was Apple. It was — that was Apple in my last, but —
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh yeah. I was going to say HBO was this year.
NIEMA JORDAN: Well it came out this year. Was there any prize there? Oh okay. "Eyes on the Prize III" — "We Who Believe in Freedom," which was the third installation in the historic documentary series that premiered about the Civil Rights Movement, sometime ago on PBS. Yeah, we did the third iteration of it, so that was really exciting.
DR. AKILAH CADET: That's very exciting. Also, one thing that you and I have in common, which is the weirdest thing ever, is we both knew we were in New York at the same time, but we literally ran into each other on the street. We're both booked and busy, but we ran into each other on the street.
NIEMA JORDAN: That was so fun.
DR. AKILAH CADET: And it was the wildest thing, and we ended up having a wonderful, very long lunch with your mentor. And it was fantastic. That was like one of those things where you're like, your people are your people, and you're going to find them wherever you are. Because why am I randomly running into you in New York?
NIEMA JORDAN: Right? Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Which makes sense. And now there's this wonderful piece by Thembisa Mshaka that talks about me as a Black woman in sports, which I think is really cool.
NIEMA JORDAN: She's such a joy.
DR. AKILAH CADET: All of that because of running into you on the street, which is great.
NIEMA JORDAN: Things work together.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Things work together. So question for you. All right. What does Humane Rights mean for you?
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, goodness.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Not the deep sigh.
NIEMA JORDAN: Well, because I — when I first heard the title of the podcast, like when I read it, I was like, human rights? I was like, no, no. Not human rights, Humane Rights. And I was like, oh, we have to think about an entirely different thing. Like, what does it really mean to be humane, especially in this time period? And I think right now it's making me think about genuine connection and care and accountability. And so those are the things that are coming up for me. Genuine connection, care and accountability.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. Wow. Oh, that's — yeah.
NIEMA JORDAN: I like it.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh. Thank you. I'll update my deck.
[Laughter]
DR. AKILAH CADET: So we're talking about — yeah. So let's get into that a little bit more. As we know, this government loves to be held accountable.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Which is — which is great. But like, when you think about doing care and accountability, how do you think we get back to humanity?
NIEMA JORDAN: I think that there are a few things. I think it's about really taking the time to see people despite everything that you have going on, because we all have so much going on. And I think that we are particularly in a time where people are stressed and they're burnt out and they're worried about their finances and it's, you know, it's one thing after another. And the default can be to detach. Take yourself out of the game. Figure out that, you know, basically like optimize yourself out of being human. Right. Like completely optimization. And so I think it's, you have to intentionally counter that. So I'm thinking a lot about talking to people in person, meeting up with people. Carving special time out of the day. Also taking that time with yourself, because I think that so much of our interactions with other people, right, are really about what we have going on inside. So part of seeing other people's humanity is being in touch with your own.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yes. It's very true. So I live a very unbothered life because I have to be in tune with my humanity because I unfortunately, I'm really good at dismantling white supremacy. So I see things in the world completely differently. And so I have to make sure I'm good first. Advocate for others. Yeah. And also knowing with the intersectionality we both carry as beautiful, stunning, Black, smart, brilliant Black women. But we also — you know, we don't get a break and the feelings of advocacy. And even if we want to disconnect from what's happening in the world, we still live in these bodies.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah. Right.
DR. AKILAH CADET: So you have to give yourself the break.
NIEMA JORDAN: What was that? What was that? You have to give yourself the break because like the thing is like people are not going to do it for you. Right. So we have all these examples of like what people are not going to do for us. And the other thing they're not going to do for us is like really like build in the rest for us, right? Like, I think that there are a lot of people who are currently modeling and talking about what does it mean to have deep rest and the importance of it. But like, you can — you can know something, but that doesn't mean that you apply it to your life, right?
DR. AKILAH CADET: Right. And so yeah. Yeah. It's the cardiologist who smokes.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: And that's a lot of us.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: My advice is so good, especially for dating. I give such great dating advice. And and then I don't — actually no. I think I do. I'm pretty good with that.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay, do you take your own dating advice?
DR. AKILAH CADET: I do. I have. Do you know? I don't know if you know this. I have a rule with dating.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, what's the rule? This is part of humanity —
DR. AKILAH CADET: — which is you're a powerful Black woman, and you — we'd like to get dicked down and celebrated.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yep.
DR. AKILAH CADET: We do. It's important.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: It's self-care.
NIEMA JORDAN: It's self-care.
DR. AKILAH CADET: That was also — that is also taking a break. I have this firm rule of only 30 minutes for the first date.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, wait. So does that make you a coffee date person?
DR. AKILAH CADET: Sure does. Because I — I've seen the internet. I mean, I do, I'm inclusive. Coffee, tea, mocktail, cocktail.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay. Right.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I don't want a meal. I don't want anything that I want to go. I want to pay for a drink at a time. I don't want to have any ties to folks because I believe every guy is trash when it comes down — they are all not trash. There's men in this room that are actually really great and not that. But it, the dating scene is definitely that. So, I do 30 minutes.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay.
DR. AKILAH CADET: The 30 minute mark. If it's not over by then, because I've had that happen. I decide if I'm going to give them 15 or 30 more minutes, but — oh, if it's going well and good, and then I just maxed out an hour because time is so valuable. But there's a lot of women when they go on a date, they're like, I don't know. Well, maybe I'll try and... Nope. You know, you know really within those first 15, 30 minutes, if not sooner, if you want to give that person your time in that moment, but definitely for a second time. So that is my —
NIEMA JORDAN: I like this.
DR. AKILAH CADET: — secret.
NIEMA JORDAN: I'm — I write that down because I'm — I'm — I'm out of the dating game right now. Taking a break.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Take a break.
NIEMA JORDAN: I'll come back. You know, in the spring or so.
[Laughter]
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, we'll take this —
NIEMA JORDAN: Niema Jordan, available.
DR. AKILAH CADET: — we'll take this winter season to focus on me. You know what I mean?
NIEMA JORDAN: Next year. Coming. I am turning 40 in January, so I'm really in that thought process of like, it feels like planning for the new year, planning for the new decade, planning for, you know, all of that sort of stuff. So I'm just — I'm grounding myself —
DR. AKILAH CADET: You are so lucky.
NIEMA JORDAN: — before I like, pop back in —
DR. AKILAH CADET: — you're going to enter — and I call it "Club Forty" — to enter in "Club Forty" in the new year.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: You know what's going to happen to you? It's going to be like — it's going to be amazing. No, it's —
NIEMA JORDAN: Listen, I have to hold that —
DR. AKILAH CADET: — it's pretty great.
NIEMA JORDAN: — that truth for myself.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm in it. I'm past 40, so. No, it's — it's pretty great. Which will also make dating better for you.
NIEMA JORDAN: I like it. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm here for it. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna give you an example.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay. Tell me —
DR. AKILAH CADET: — Just the 30 minute thing to get you prepared.
NIEMA JORDAN: I'm — I'm ready for this 30 minute because I'm like, yeah, tell me what's going on? Tell me what I'm doing.
DR. AKILAH CADET: We're on a date. My therapist made me get on a dating app. And I love and hate her for that.
NIEMA JORDAN: And do we like those dating apps?
DR. AKILAH CADET: Dating apps? Do we like those? Do we like those?
NIEMA JORDAN: Dating apps are the biggest piece of fucking trash that's ever been created by technology. I've been using dating apps like since '08, so I'm like an early dating apps person and I have recently retired. So my mom — like this had to be like 15 years ago — decided on a holiday that or I was in town or something. I don't know what the fuck I was doing. She decided to set up a match.com profile for me.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh. For you.
NIEMA JORDAN: For me. And the thing that's the most disturbing is that there's like a question about, like, sex. Like, how many times do you like to have sex? And my mom got it right. I do not talk to my mom — my mom is like — she is a super religious woman. So that conversation doesn't come up. And I was sitting there and she was like, on the computer.
DR. AKILAH CADET: That's all, you know? Long time. Yeah, maybe it was — maybe it was '08. A long time ago.
NIEMA JORDAN: It was one of those, uh-huh. She's on the computer doing this thing. And I was like, wow, how did she know that? And then she went to go pay for it because I refused.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh, she was really trying to help you out.
NIEMA JORDAN: The card was declined because the card company was like, this bitch is not like —
DR. AKILAH CADET: This is unusual spending.
NIEMA JORDAN: — she is a married elder adult. Here is unusual spending.
DR. AKILAH CADET: What is happening? Right.
NIEMA JORDAN: Then shut it down. And eventually she found a way to make it. Had to. You know, call the credit card company. 'Cause I was actually against it. But anyway, so I had to go on a dating app, end of last year. So I went on a date and went to a tiki bar.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh, okay.
NIEMA JORDAN: At the choice of the man. He picked a tiki bar and I, you know what? I love a tiki bar. Not gonna lie. I don't go as much as I feel that I love it, but give me a flamingo, okay? A pina colada and a strawberry daiquiri, and I'm like, yes — or you know, a funky monkey or whatever, I don't know, I'm into it. Now I'm realizing that that drink is probably racist, but —
DR. AKILAH CADET: Let's see — just tell you —
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, gosh.
DR. AKILAH CADET: The story of my life. White Supremacy is all around.
NIEMA JORDAN: As I drank so many of them in Mexico —
[Laughter]
DR. AKILAH CADET: White Supremacy is all around.
NIEMA JORDAN: — somebody's wedding many years ago.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh gosh. So he was late.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay. So so that cut into his 30 minutes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: It sure did.
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay. It sure did. And, you know, I got my tropical drink and I was having my drink at the bar. He came and then he was like telling me things that really just didn't make sense. And then he for some reason was talking about guns. I don't even know how it came up. And I was like, "Oh, boy." So he said something about he was like a proud gun owner. And —
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, no, I'm not into guns.
NIEMA JORDAN: He's like, okay, but do you rent or own? And I was like, I own my home. You should have a gun.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Not — don't want a gun.
NIEMA JORDAN: No. You have to have a gun.
DR. AKILAH CADET: No. I'm good. I don't want a gun.
NIEMA JORDAN: There's this back and forth, and I said, listen, there's two things that happen when gun violence occurs. Because he said, I have guns because he was around gun violence and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's why he needs guns. And it's a funny story. I also was around gun violence a few times in my life.
DR. AKILAH CADET: It's the reason why I don't have guns.
NIEMA JORDAN: Uh-huh. So you can go one way or the other. You can get a gun or overcorrect and have more guns or not have guns at all. I think it's like, no, you need to have guns. Now if I didn't have a frozen drink I would have been gone way sooner. But brain freeze is awful. And I was not going to do that.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Wasn't gonna — you wasn't gonna guzzle down the frozen drink.
NIEMA JORDAN: No! Okay? I was not gonna guzzle down my pina colada. And so, once I finish my last sip, I lean forward on my hand on the table. I said we're not compatible. Have a nice night. And I got up. When I tell you I was door to door from the bar to my home in 30 minutes —
DR. AKILAH CADET: I like it.
NIEMA JORDAN: It was great. And when I said that and I walked away, he said, well, that's why you look homeless.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm sorry.
NIEMA JORDAN: Sir, what?
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm sorry, sir. What?
NIEMA JORDAN: There's nothing about me that looked homeless. In fact, I looked pretty great.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh! Uh, yeah.
NIEMA JORDAN: And and my biggest regret is I just didn't like, throw the drink in his face. Like, I feel like that would have been the time for me to throw a drink in someone's face. But I drank it, you know?
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, yeah. I also feel like throwing drinks in people's faces is very TV.
NIEMA JORDAN: It is very TV.
DR. AKILAH CADET: But I feel like —
NIEMA JORDAN: But I was going for the drama.
DR. AKILAH CADET: It would've made for a better story.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I'm not always after the plot in that way, but that might be the like — as a director...
NIEMA JORDAN: As a director. But I do go by the rule of the thespian, T-Pain, got drinks. She drank them. But I didn't get drunk.
DR. AKILAH CADET: You got drunk?
NIEMA JORDAN: But I drank them.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's — that's fascinating because I think about, like, how these — I was telling before we rolled I used to be all that, like, I used to talk about my dating life all the time, and because I had a blog and it was called Twentysomething Renaissance, and I was like, in New York and like, writing under the pseudonym. And I was like, look at me living. So I was like, writing the foolishness down and publishing it all the time. Which got like a little weird once. Like, people, like, attached my name to the blog. And so then it would be like, are you about to write about me on the blog?
NIEMA JORDAN: Depends.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Are you going to act an ass? I don't know. Right. So, you know, that was — that was a thing. And then at some point I was like, okay, maybe I don't want to be known as the relationships girl because, like, I'm actually trying to, like —
NIEMA JORDAN: — be in a relationship.
DR. AKILAH CADET: — build my film career and do my journalism —
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, oh, you're thinking about the career, not the dating.
DR. AKILAH CADET: — and all of it, you know, all of these different things. But I used to go on, like, really wild dates and —
NIEMA JORDAN: Like, on purpose?
DR. AKILAH CADET: No, like — you would just —
NIEMA JORDAN: I would just get there and I'd be like, this is a little off. And then I would go, oh, this is very off. And then I go, okay, I have to end the date. But I'm not saying anything. I'm not telling you during the date that there's not going to be a second date, because I just don't really know how crazy you are.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah.
NIEMA JORDAN: And so, I would wait until I get home before I'm like, okay. Yeah, actually no thank you to a part two.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I think that's really important because like love is part of getting back to humanity. Yeah. And words are powerful as you know. And I like — I only use crazy when it actually makes sense. And there are unstable crazy men on dating apps. And so in our year and Lord of Oprah, when I go on a date I will either usually I text my neighbor, okay, I'm going on a date. Don't know if this is the guy's name because people don't use their names.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh, that's interesting.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Picture of him. And this is, you know, going to be at this tiki bar. You know, if you don't see me come home, narrow the search down there. That is just the standard of dating like at best, you know there could be a subpar crappy good date.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah. Second date.
DR. AKILAH CADET: But at worst it's like sexual assault, raped, physical violence, abducted. Yeah. And that's what happens when you date. And then we like to further make it fun and exciting because we, we own things and we run things and we're known in places and spaces. And so for me, it's very hard to be authentic. I swiped on a dating app, and I've seen guys in Oakland Roots gear. And you like, I'm the owner of that team. Do you like it? I can't date you.
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, because that's not gonna work.
NIEMA JORDAN: Because how do I know if that guy is interested in me as a person —
DR. AKILAH CADET: — or he just wants to go —
NIEMA JORDAN: — or he wants tickets to the game.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Right. That is really fascinating. I mean, there are these different things. There's a few things that are coming up for me as you're talking about this, because one I'm thinking about this idea overall, right, that like part of how we get back to humanity is love. Right? And I think about what it means for us to have healthy relationships. And I know we're talking about in the dating sense right now, but like healthy relationships all around. Right? But there was also this moment for me this year where I went through a breakup and then everybody's like, okay, are you like, when are you getting back out in the streets? When are you getting back out on the streets? And I was like, the world is fucking falling apart. Can I think about dating right now? Do you mean like there are people going hungry? We are not giving aid there. Bombing. There's multiple genocides like, yeah, why am I talking about going out to coffee with someone, right? Losing their jobs. Yeah, it's all of these things. But then I just kind of had this moment. There's a dating coach named Francesca Hogi, and she talks about love as a spiritual assignment and —
NIEMA JORDAN: Oh.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Right? And and it's — and it's something that helped to, like, bring me back into this space right where it's like, it's not frivolous to talk about love. It's not frivolous to talk about romance and dating. And when the world is falling apart, you being in a strong partnership right, with someone that you are values aligned with somewhere where like, y'all are like, let's be out in the community and make this change. But also let's just take care of each other in our own homes like that, something that can be so powerful and I think even more powerful in this wild time that we're in. But sometimes it takes a little bit more work to shift your mind in that way, right? Because like, you get online and online, it's like everything is trash and there's pee in the dating pool and la-da-da-da-dah. And, and like, there are also married people in the dating pool. And so you really feel like there's like all of these different conversations. Right? And it's like, okay. And that doesn't have to be my reality. And part of the work that I am doing here in this world is also at some point going to be in partnership. It's not in partnership right now, but at some point it will be because that's something that's important and significant.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yeah, yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Do you have hope that you're gonna have a partner?
NIEMA JORDAN: I do.
DR. AKILAH CADET: How do you — how do you tell me?
NIEMA JORDAN: Well, here's the thing is I feel like — I feel like it will align at some point. I got rid of my timelines a long time ago because, like —
DR. AKILAH CADET: I just bought sperm.
NIEMA JORDAN: That made my timeline easier. Well, so I froze my eggs a few years ago.
DR. AKILAH CADET: See?
NIEMA JORDAN: Right? Like so, you know, there's — there's a thing. Right? So years ago, I froze my eggs. And so I think that took some pressure off. I wrote about that, too. I really be on the internet talking about my personal life a lot.
DR. AKILAH CADET: You know, I'm the same way. But but never, like, in a particularly branded way, just sort of like, oh, I think this might be interesting to people.
NIEMA JORDAN: But I got diagnosed with PCOS. Polycystic ovary syndrome, for those who don't know. Right? And one of the big things was like they just kept telling me, like, you're fertility, you're fertility, your fertility. And I'm like, oh shit! I'm in my 30s. I was newly single at the time. I have this disorder. I'm like, all right, let's freeze the eggs. And there was like a [exhales] — but then like, a couple of years later, I ended up getting custody of my nephew. And so, like, now I have a 14 year old.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Right.
NIEMA JORDAN: So, like, I really don't have no damn pressure for no love, you know what I mean? Like, it's — because you never know how life is going to turn out. Right?
DR. AKILAH CADET: And also, it's important to note that you are a great mom.
NIEMA JORDAN: Thank you.
DR. AKILAH CADET: 'Cause I've known you since you've become a mom. And it's just been great to see. He's a great kid.
NIEMA JORDAN: Thank you. I appreciate that, but it's like it comes into this space, right? So this idea of hope, it's like, yes, I have hope. I don't need to know how everything is going to work out. I don't need to know the steps. I just need to believe that it's going to happen.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I love that, right.
NIEMA JORDAN: And so that's where I am. I'm believing that it's going to happen. I have no control over the time. I have no control over the space. What I can do is be like, yeah, I know I'm single, and if you want to set me up with somebody, please feel free to do that. That's what I can do, right?
DR. AKILAH CADET: So you wanna tell everyone your Instagram handle so they can slide in their DMs?
NIEMA JORDAN: I am Niema Jordan. What? But yeah. So I'm — I'm really hopeful. And I would say I'm hopeful overall. I'm not just hopeful in the dating and relationship space, but this idea of humanity, right. And being humane and how we can get to — I'm hopeful about all of those things because there are — there are a lot of people who are really foul, but there are also a lot of people who are really great. And I think that's where I choose to put my energy.
DR. AKILAH CADET: So along with choices, what do you do to have pockets of joy?
NIEMA JORDAN: Sounds so weird. I'm like I schedule joy.
DR. AKILAH CADET: I think it's great. Because I think it's important.
NIEMA JORDAN: But I think what pockets of joy — for me, it's really about mindfulness. Like when I'm in the moment, sitting and being like, oh, like. This is. This is great. Like, oh, I haven't experienced this before. Journaling also helps me a lot with joy. And just being in community with good people, that's really where I find a lot of joy and dancing in my kitchen. If I'm cooking, there is music blasting and I am dancing. It is a whole production studio in my kitchen.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Listen. I document it sometimes. Sometimes I share it with the world. I am an excellent twerker, so.
NIEMA JORDAN: Come on. It's like, I'm a two step in the kitchen kinda. Like I'm gonna put on some Anthony Hamilton, some Jill Scott, and I'm a two step my way through that thing.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Uh. Yeah.
NIEMA JORDAN: No, I think as you should. As you should. I don't know why we've never — we should — we should go dance outside.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh, yes. Or in each other's kitchen.
NIEMA JORDAN: If I'm outside dancing, then it's very East Oakland. Yee, everywhere.
DR. AKILAH CADET: And, you know, it has to be — super go dumb every time it's — it's a little — we can't not — do you know, I have started working out more because I went to a party and couldn't go as dumb as I used to and was like, oh, damn, I'm not. I'm not where I used to be. It's time to get back in the gym. The core isn't bringing in my Thizz face! And ghost ridin.
NIEMA JORDAN: I workout so I get Thizz face. Not actually... anyway. We won't go there. People don't understand how important your core is to everything when it comes to hyphy.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Well, thank you for bringing me some joy and more importantly, some encouragement with this single journey.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: So I just want to remind you something that you already know. And do you know what it is? You know, what is it?
NIEMA JORDAN: Okay. Dun dun dun dun.
DR. AKILAH CADET: To Keep Being Amazing.
NIEMA JORDAN: Yay! Matchy-matchy. Thank you. Yes, yes.
DR. AKILAH CADET: Thank you for being part of this journey from the start because you, you know, Black Truth Project. That's where you know.
NIEMA JORDAN: Wow. Yeah.
DR. AKILAH CADET: That shirt on and everything — everything changed — murder of George Floyd days. So just remember to Keep Being Amazing.
NIEMA JORDAN: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And I appreciate you for having me.
— OUTRO —
DR. AKILAH CADET: Big love and gratitude to our guests for showing up with truth, humor, and of course, humanity. If this conversation moved you, you got to like it. You got to share it. You have to talk about it, bring it into your circle, spaces and places because that's how change multiplies. You can catch more episodes wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full series produced by Ciel Media and me on the Ciel Media YouTube channel. Now what is that YouTube channel? What you need to subscribe to so you can get more of this. But until next time, stay curious, find your joy and Keep Being Amazing.
END OF TRANSCRIPT