Humane Rights w/ Dr. Akilah Cadet

Season 1

Episode 6: Taylor Smalls

DR. AKILAH CADET: Welcome to my podcast. Thank you for having me. We have THE Taylor Smalls in the studio. I would love for you to tell folks just how amazing you are.

TAYLOR SMALLS: All right. Well. I'm feeling amazing today because I get to sit here with you on your podcast and I always appreciate being in your presence. So I think what makes me amazing is my community. So I'll just start with that. But my name is Taylor Smalls and I am a palette knife painter. A water worker. I'll say a water mover of paint. In Oakland, California. I'm a designer. I'm a friend. I'm a hard worker. All the things. I guess those are things that make me amazing.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. Palette knife painter. I wonder if this art looks really familiar, and I just wonder if it's yours.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Might be my work.

DR. AKILAH CADET: You have painted Joyce Gordon here. Do you want to talk a little bit about it?

TAYLOR SMALLS: Yeah, certainly. So I painted Joyce a few years ago, for a show that I did called Throughline, which was the first show that I ever did. Coming out of architecture. And that was an inaugural show that I really wanted to lean into, that really showed who I wanted to focus on as my subject matter moving forward. And I had to take a moment to step back and distill, you know, what is my purpose in painting? I can't just continue to paint beautiful women just because. But what is, you know, the storyline? What is the backbone? Behind it all and what's the through line behind it all? And so I decided on this concept called Throughline which, you know, took these amazing pillars of Oakland including yourself.

DR. AKILAH CADET: What?

TAYLOR SMALLS: I am beautiful. You're right. It's true. But taking these amazing, amazing people who are just these incredible hard workers who never really get their flowers. For the years and the effort and the foundation that they've created and our community and, you know, bolstering them up in so many different mediums, through photography, through painting, through poetry, food, through song. And just kind of giving them this like holistic, collective hug, I guess, through a bunch of different artistic mediums so that they felt the love that they've shared through their work over time. So that's why I painted Joyce, because she's amazing and she has an incredible gallery, and she's just one of the most foundational people in Oakland that I can imagine. Who has really laid such a foundation and a beautiful network for so many Black artists in our town.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. be part of it. So. Yeah, exactly. You know, I am a very proud Black, disabled woman. So what I like to do is describe who I am and what I look like because people tune in in so many different ways. So. Yeah, I have my 613 braids. For those who don't know I'm a Blonde baddie right now. My pronouns are bad bitch or she/her. I'm wearing a black vintage men's Valentino blazer paired with a fishnet black Diotima skirt. Who's one of my favorite designers.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Same.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I have on some burgundy heels and the t shirt's the best part, because I designed it. You're talking about flowers. And on my shirt I have a silhouette of Sam "Toothpick" Jones. A picture I had I did with my collection with the Giants and it says, "Get them their flowers." Yes. So can you tell people how wonderful and great you look right now?

TAYLOR SMALLS: Absolutely. I am also. I am a new Blonde.

DR. AKILAH CADET: You earned it. Welcome in. Yes.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I do it seasonally. Thank you very much. I am a new Blonde with a bob, very short hair. I am wearing black top, some very pointy leopardy heels.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Mesh heels.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Mesh heels. They have to know it's mesh. Mesh specifically. Some great pants from Curator, which is an amazing women owned brand in San Francisco. And a very bright, saturated red jacket from Boy Scouts of America, which is an original that I just stumbled upon very recently, which is.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Such a good jacket. Very fun, because I was also a Girl Scout and you were too.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I was but I'm Troop 1395.

DR. AKILAH CADET: And I am troop 001.

TAYLOR SMALLS: No. Yeah. That's not possible.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I in your area? I'm actually 95 years old.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Oh, no, I because you it's by your area. Your number and stuff. No, no you're right.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. No, it's not true at all. Sacramento, California. Shout out to my troop. If anyone is listening. You have a look on your face.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Because in full disclosure, we get to work together. I started as your muse. I'm your manager, so I know how to read you. But what question do you want to? You want to ask me a question?

DR. AKILAH CADET: So I am very fortunate to be sitting here, on this podcast. And when I walked in, I got to see the branding for the name of this podcast. And I am so curious as to why you called it Humane Rights?

TAYLOR SMALLS: It's a wonderful question. We don't have time to get into that. I'm kidding. I also designed a logo too because I'm a Virgo and I do too much. But Humane Rights is just all about getting back to humanity and that's why we're having these discussions. We're in a time where, you know, just existing for people have more intersectionality. The intersections of our identity is exhausting. It's a lot of work. It's life threatening. You know, for a lot of folks. We are in this current time we are dealing with. ICE raids and things happening in Chicago. Things happening in Portland. People care about Charlie Kirk and, blah, blah, blah, like all of that stuff that's happening and we're really losing humanity. So I purposely instead of, you know, saying, like human rights. And I wanted to use humane purposely is because when people hear humane, they tend to forget that that means humanity, too. They tend to think more about animals and and pets and those types of things.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: And so that's why that's why it's the name. So I love it. Here we are.

DR. AKILAH CADET: That's amazing. But what would it mean to you? Like when you saw Humane Rights? Yeah. What came up for you? Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I mean, I was thinking about this obviously through, like, the lens of being an artist, of course. And for me, Humane Rights and terms of artistry in terms of the specifically where we live and the Bay Area and Oakland and you know, San Francisco. All of that. It's this age of AI. I am not pushing against, but I am not fully adopting at the same time. And I think in terms of artists and Humane Rights is for artists to continue to be able to show their work in an honest way and potentially utilize, the tools of the now, but continue to create human work and humane work that is always going to move forward. The reason why I love painting specifically, and the reason why it is my medium is because I've seen, you know, through the art all of time: painting, drawing, making, creating, sculpting will never fail. It'll never go away. Through anything. Through what the what were those things called NFTs like all of that.

DR. AKILAH CADET: How do you say. Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: How do you say NFT? Through all of these different eras? Like, there have been so many different ways where like, arts, the arts have been pushed and pulled, but there's certain things that are consistent. And so when I saw Humane Rights, it's like it's sticking to our artistry, our humanity, our the way that we can continue to be with each other and actually engage versus just sending stuff off to the cloud, the ether or whatever and creating what may just be, you know, flippant soon enough.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh, I have so many thoughts about AI. And I had to be in a board meeting today. We had a conversation about AI, and I had to be the person to say, like, you know, AI doesn't care about me. As you know, as a BIPOC person, as a Black person.

TAYLOR SMALLS: 100%.

DR. AKILAH CADET: And so I think there's wonderful ways to use AI, but if you are doing it to uphold the values of white supremacy, then it's not beneficial to me. It's just there's going to be another place that's going to cause harm. Right? And as soon as I go outside. And when I say outside of my home, then I'm dealing with so many factors. And I don't want that to happen on ChatGPT. Also, fun fact never used ChatGPT in my entire life and I have no plans on doing so.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Okay. Nice. Good. Thank you very much.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Good for you.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Yeah, you're a rare one.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I know, but because I know the implications of AI. Not to say that you can't use AI, but, the amount of energy that's used for AI, the amount of water that's used for AI, the amount of creative thinking that is lost because of and creative and critical thinking that can be lost from AI.

TAYLOR SMALLS: The critical thinking, I think, is really key.

DR. AKILAH CADET: The critical thinking part is hard. Like these kids can't even.

TAYLOR SMALLS: No. They can't get it together. It's going to be soon enough where people can't like put one foot in front of the other.

DR. AKILAH CADET: So yeah, yeah, I hear you. But as you're older, when I'm getting.

TAYLOR SMALLS: So I'm curious for you, art is a wonderful place to be. But it can definitely be a harder place as a woman of color. And you are proudly Black and white doing all the things, celebrating people who look exactly like you look a little different than you, but it's just all about centering that work. Why is that? When we're talking about humanity and you're celebrating a voice that is under constant question right now. So why do you keep painting women and women of color?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Well, I don't even feel like there is a choice in the matter. To be honest. As I was just discussing, I really do believe that the hand still needs to be maintained and physical artwork these days and contemporary art in general. I want to continue to see, you know, new artists of today creating work physically and that being what is left in our institutions. I want that to be what's seen on walls, in a coffee shop or in a restaurant or/and somebody's home, so that they can experience it. I really do believe that for me. I just when I was growing up, and I know that this can also like in ways sound like a trope at this point. But like when I was growing up, I genuinely never saw any celebratory Black and Brown women in institutions whatsoever. In contemporary art. In a museum. The only time that I would even go to museums would be if I was going back to DC, if I was going back east, to see my family and you know, those are the major ones that are going to be held and like forever and ever and ever and protected. And what I was looking at in DC in New York was just where like where am I? And if I see myself, it's like muddy. And it's dull. It's just not how I see my family. It's not how I see my friends. It's not how I see any other Black and Brown woman around me. It's like it's not vibrant. And so I really just think that like I want to continue to see like the actual like humanity in us like just on canvas and actually being held, with love and cherished and, you know, moving forward in history.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Maybe you'll be in a museum.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Hahahahahahaha. She's hinting. Which should be cool.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Am I hinting? I'm being very dramatic. Okay. Serious note I've never asked you this question. And I do want to on record so I waited until I had a podcast.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Great.

TAYLOR SMALLS: How and why did I become your muse? When did that happen?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Oh my goodness. Well, truth be told, it happened as I was doing research for Throughline.

TAYLOR SMALLS: What?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, it happened as I was doing research. I was really, really wanting to. Yeah. That like it came to be then because I had heard of you prior, but like looking more and more into imagery and like hearing you speak more. At that time when I was doing research, I was like, okay, who am I going to choose for this? And it was just immediate and obvious when like I came across you actually speaking about your work. That I was like, oh done and done. Because I am not the person to be truly at the forefront like standing up for Black and Brown women like vocally. I know my craft. And I know how I feel. And I know how I feel about myself, And I know how I feel about suppression as well. And I just saw you speaking so boldly, so plainly and very unapologetically. And it was just obvious because it's like, this is the form that I do not have. I don't love to speak publicly, but I can do it.

TAYLOR SMALLS: And you're great. But it's but you're very forthcoming with your words. And I was just like, okay this is great. Like, you are fulfilling also something of me that I would love to share. And I was like, this is what I want to lean into. So that's why.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I had no idea. Yeah. I just assumed. It was during that time. After I did a four hour interview of you, you were just like, yeah, no, that's it's that one.

TAYLOR SMALLS: But I'm incredibly honored. And I do want to circle back to the experience of Throughline, particularly then we're talking about humanity. Some people may or may not know that the show is, November 2023. And on November 27th, 2023, I had part of my diaphragm removed so I can eat again.

DR. AKILAH CADET: And then I was like, I had to learn how to eat and shit and talk and walk and like I had to learn to do all those things again. So I missed the kinda final shows, but I went all but like one show until I had surgery. I was there like every night.

TAYLOR SMALLS: You were there every day. And people are like, why are you here? That's wild.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Because first of all, my paintings are great. I also didn't know I was going to have two paintings, so that was a whole fun surprise.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I wanted one for myself.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Which is true. I am in your studio and I feel very special about it. But I would say the same thing every night. Why are you back?

TAYLOR SMALLS: I'm like well this place is devoid of white supremacy because it was a space designed to celebrate women of color, particularly like Black women from another Black woman to me.

DR. AKILAH CADET: You know, I'm not openly white but —

TAYLOR SMALLS: I'm not openly white, she says. It's in there so we can connect on that part too. But no, it was just a space where I was able to be celebrated and it didn't feel heavy. This work of dismantling white supremacy is like very, very heavy. But it felt light. And every time I went, I just literally filled up, you know, like literally and figuratively. And then people would say like, oh that's your mole and, you know, like to have those things. Yeah. And every night I would take pictures and video like it was the first time.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Well that's the hope. And like that's actually what I was trying to achieve in the show is making sure that like it was actually you. It felt like you. Color was you. You saw your moles. You saw you know, the poses that you were in. Like, it really like exemplified you. And the poems and the food. And we all worked so collaboratively in that process to make sure that all of you guys felt held and like felt known and seen. And that was really the purpose of the show. Nothing more. I had to take a photograph that from Brandon Ruffin, who's an incredible photographer, and Taylor painted off of those photos. And I hated taking those photos because I was 30 pounds heavier. I had a bald spot and I was losing my hair. And now I have one of the other paintings. It's in my home, and I see that I'm so proud of myself for like, making it through that space. But it just goes into how I have to continually find ways to celebrate my disabled body that does whatever it wants to do. And how beautiful. And on all those different ways.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Exactly. And at a certain, I would say it's a time stamp as well. It's a time stamp and it's a time stamp I'm proud of, like the cover of my book. That was also losing my hair 30 pounds.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Blech.

TAYLOR SMALLS: And but it's a time stamp. And I and I love it. I also did reshoot.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I love that too. Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: But I love it. It's a form of of celebration. Which leads me to something that I think is really important for women in general, but particularly for Black women.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: And it's knowing, like, who's in your corner. Every day we're hearing something or another, particularly from Donald and Co about how, you know, they don't want us. We have so many Black women, who have literal boss ass positions. You know, they're in elected position. They are running some shit and doing whatever and they're viciously and violently being attacked. We have attack on DEI, which is also attacking Black women. And so now your work is becoming even more, celebratory, but also radical at the same time.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: So but with that and all the things that we're navigating, who's in your corner? Who is supporting you along the way?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, absolutely. I have felt for some time that I have found that the women that I'm actually collaborating with on these projects, on whether it was really in volume one, volume two, postpartum from that, new management obviously here.

TAYLOR SMALLS: What? Oh my God. Tell everyone how great I am. No I'm kidding. I mean. Yeah, just people coming from the woodworks as well. It's like I'm finding that there are just so many women who are really wanting to lean into this practice because they actually see the benefit and the reason at this time like in history.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I guess we're in the present. But, you know.

TAYLOR SMALLS: #currentsituation. Current situation.

DR. AKILAH CADET: hashag's died. But yes.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Yeah. True. Exactly. But no, I just I'm seeing this really interesting like groundswell of people really lean and in, and I'm finding that the people in my corner are the ones that genuinely have my best interests in mind. This is not new news to anybody has that definition. But, the people who are actually showing up. I will say that. Showing up to shows, showing up to meetings, showing up to creating contracts.

DR. AKILAH CADET: We love a contract.

TAYLOR SMALLS: We love a contract showing up to. Yeah. Just actually and what I mean by that specifically is I'm just going to use that as an example, as like creating a contract is actually looking out for my best interests in their best interests. And so that's really showing up in your corner because you can't get fucked in the future. And so I appreciate that deeply. I would say that that's a big part of our relationship. I think that's a big part of other people on our teams relationship. And other people that I'm working with. And so those, the people in my corner are the ones that I really want to bolster up as well. And highlight in my work and moving forward. I plan to do that.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. I don't think people really understand how women tend to constantly be screwed over. Yeah, in so many ways. And I've seen it in so many ways, all the way down to how much they want to pay you for, you know, something? We're seeing it with, women's sports right now. We're seeing so many ways in which, people are just saying, like, well, you're great and wonderful and amazing. I want you to do a million things but we don't want to pay you what you are worth.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Exactly. We don't want to set you up for success. We don't want to get the things that you need.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Absolutely. And that's fixed in place. I would say too, like, I've been fortunate enough to work with several sports teams this year and upcoming as well. And I have found that the people who I've been championing me and championing us, happen to be women who really want to see this happen and really want to make proper connections and not just really light or flippant ones, but really want deep like integrated work within their corporations. Or within their, you know, industries too. And I so recognize that and want to support that and also want to give that back and pay that forward too. So all of my assistants, for example, have always been women, and have always been, you know, up and coming emerging artists to who I want to honestly unload all of my knowledge and give them all of my resources and all of my spreadsheets and all of my everything that I've already created.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Here's the pathway. Yeah. Here is a path. A path. A path. Yeah. Because they're especially in this industry, especially within, the art world, there really is nothing set. There's nothing set in stone. And so as long as you have some level of foundation or one step higher, like you get to jump off at a higher, like, we know this through like generational wealth. Like Oh my God. You can like just use that as a direct...

DR. AKILAH CADET: I would love to be a trust fund baby. Yeah, here I am. Hustling.

TAYLOR SMALLS: But exactly. But exactly. And I don't want the people that are working with or coming up with me to be hustling as hard as I have had to. And I think that through that ethos, other people have seen that as well, and they want to share that with me and they're like, let's come up here too. And so it it really is a chain that has been known in America for a very long time. But I think that we have to share that between Black women and specifically younger folks like too. Let's, let's help. Let's at least share our knowledge.

DR. AKILAH CADET: So. Speaking of sharing, I would love for you to share how you are having a pocket of joy.

TAYLOR SMALLS: A pocket of joy? Yeah, humanity's fucked. So what's a pocket of joy? You have so many pockets.

DR. AKILAH CADET: I have so many pockets.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Okay, I'm going to say something really silly, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it. When I got this jacket, I opened up the pocket because it looked a little puffy, and I pulled out this beautiful silk handkerchief, and it had it was embroidered with a "T" and I was like, that's weird.

DR. AKILAH CADET: What?

TAYLOR SMALLS: So that was a little pocket of joy that I've had recently.

DR. AKILAH CADET: If you forgot, your name is Taylor. It's starts with a "T". My name is Taylor. Random jacket. Silk scarf. "T" on it. Yeah. So that is a wonderful pocket of joy.

TAYLOR SMALLS: We're going to clean it.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah we are. We are going to use it. Yeah.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Yes we are. But pocket of joy that I've had recently. I will say I had a moment where I was having a show quite recently. And we were winding down end of day, end of the show. And a little boy walked in and he. I don't know he's probably six or so. And he was pointing. I saw him outside and he was pointing at my painting. It's facing outwards. And he came inside with his parents, and he it was almost like he couldn't speak or didn't want to speak. He was just shy. And he kept whispering into his mom's ear. And his mom was relaying to me everything that he was saying. And he was saying, I'm an artist. I like your painting. But he couldn't say it to me. And eventually, through about like five minutes or so, I walked over there and he came over and he was just the most intelligent little guy that I've ever met. And he really wanted to show me his artwork. And I was just like this is amazing. I'm so happy that he got to walk down the street, built the confidence in that moment to like actually talk to me. And I'm a perfect stranger. And to just sit down and like hopefully got to like spark something like he's going to push forward in it. I don't know. I just, I think that when you're so young, people punch out like artistic creativity because it's like that's not going to work in the long run. And I just hope that he keeps having little nuggets like that throughout his life and continues to see moments of like beauty and gets to meet an artist like over and over and over.

DR. AKILAH CADET: And six with that. And you were the artist.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Yeah, I was really cool.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Let folks know how they can find you.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Oh, Instagram, which is @Taylor.Smalls. We have my website, which is also TaylorSmalls.com. I don't know where else do people find me?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Outside? I think that's that outside.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I'm really not outside often, so that's not going to happen.

DR. AKILAH CADET: You are not but you came outside today. And I just want to remind you.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Oh, yes. Yes please. Keep Being Amazing.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yes, I love this. And thank you for being here. And I am planning on painting this so.

TAYLOR SMALLS: You're going to paint the shirt?

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah, I am.

TAYLOR SMALLS: Oh okay. But then I'm going to want it back probably.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Yeah. Haha. Well thank you for coming on Humane Rights. I really, really appreciate it and I really appreciate the work that you're doing.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I appreciate the work that you're doing. Yeah, this is. Love that we're in each other's corners.

DR. AKILAH CADET: Me too. Just being amazing and shit.

TAYLOR SMALLS: I do too! Thank you so much. This is so lovely. Thank you.